+ORC & +Fravia

what Ive read, +orc HAD a secret site.

and a riddle to find it.

It was removed as soon as it was found and replaced

by a page I have seen myself with no content.

+orc dissapeared at the same time.

so eventhough somebody supposedly saw it,

it is gone long ago. they aren't newbie level tuts

anyway. I never understood all of the save vectors and

other stuff he is talking about, he doesnt explain how to

follow his steps, you gotta already know much and how

to use the tools.