Starforce 3 - The gravestone?

[jonwil]

When will these highly paid copy-protection-coders realize that for all their expertise, they still cant beat the crackers?

Is there ANY copy protection that relies on you having an origonal disk that has yet to be broken? (i.e. such that you cant use the software with a copyied disk + a crack or whatever)

[dyn!o]

Jonwil: Well, probably never. Guess why? Because it's about money, my friend. Money change. Change many of us.

And if it comes to the second part of your question: no. Uncracked protection so far doesn't exist.

[jonwil]

The real question is whether a game with copy protection makes more total $ than the same game would without protection. (and therefore validating the argument about copy protection actually resulting in more sales)
Bearing in mind that all this fancy protection and anti-debugging stuff probobly costs the publishers a lot of money.

well even if a copy protection is expensive it will pay out...
most games which are protected by SF3 will be cracked in 2-6 months
and some of them will never be cracked.
the first 6-8 weeks after a game launch are important because in this
time the big money is done...

[dyn!o]

"most games which are protected by SF3 will be cracked in 2-6 months"
With all respect my friend: discussed relase date is 3 weeks after the game appeared in shops. Why are you saying "will be"?

"and some of them will never be cracked. "
I have never heard about uncracked software (including game), did you? Sometimes we can find a rare software which stay uncracked - not because of protection strength but specific type (engineering, architect, astro, etc.). Even if for some games cracks don't exist, you can mount MDF images and play this game without crack (like Toca2).

"the first 6-8 weeks after a game launch are important because in this time the big money is done..."
I thought the same... but in the past
Why that's wrong? Because the money from first 6-8 weeks are usually about 30% of whole incomings. Do you know what's the title in the first best 15 selling games in my country? Ravenshield 3 - 2 years old game. Look at Amazon or your local stores. How many one year old games did you found? I bet many. Do you think the store keeps them just to make the hall looks better? Nope, they keep them because they sells.

Let's take another example: Xpand Rally. Techland didn't relase it yet in the USA, Spain, Holland, Italy, Sweden, Denmark, Greece, etc., etc.... Then how first 6-8 weeks can be critical for them? Just imagine losses in the USA only - the biggest game market on the world.

So, when really big money come?
They are rendered during whole a so called "game-life time" (my personall opinion).

Think about it.

>With all respect my friend: discussed relase date is 3 weeks after the >game appeared in shops. Why are you saying "will be"?

Ok ok...calm down There are some games which were cracked
"very" fast, but there are games protected with SF3 which aren't
cracked for months, like e.g. D-Day and some other low budget
games ( ok for those no one really wants them


>Even if for some games cracks don't exist, you can mount MMD >images and play this game without crack (like Toca2).

Well i think that's not the point, for most safedisc/securom protected
games you will find a clone but you will find a seperate crack too. Ok
the need for a crack isn't that big if you can clone a game...


>Let's take another example: Xpand Rally. Techland didn't relase it yet >in the USA, Spain, Holland, Italy, Sweden, Denmark, Greece, etc., >etc.... Then how first 6-8 weeks can be critical for them? Just >imagine losses in the USA only - the biggest game market on the >world.

>So, when really big money come?
>They are rendered during whole a so called "game-life time" (my >personall opinion).

good point...make sense...well one other thing why they protecting
their games is to prevent videostore-lamers to make simple copies of
their products...

[dyn!o]

Look here:

hxxp://www.xpandrally.com/en/forumShTh.php?ThID=1999&SeID=1&ref=

Really hot discussion about Starforce legality.

Serious arguments, hot atmosphere... check it out.

Originally Posted by dyn!o

I have never heard about uncracked software (including game), did you?

Yes, try to find some workaround for game Beyond Divinity (second part of the great game Divine Divinity) and I am not talking about that solutions that you mentioned in your first post like unplugging ide cables of CD-ROM drive...
I have been searching for other solution for some time but without any success..
It would be great of Ultima release some info about their method but I think they won't cause it should help the developers to improve SF3.. and this is probably the reason why were stopped some projects like SafeDisc v1 & v2 generic unpackers..
Regards.

[dyn!o]

"Then the crack is not as interesting (even though it is still impressive) protect.dll changes from game to game - the same effort that was put into this particular game will have to be repeated on others.��

With all respect, Doug:

In some previous post I suggested that maybe we should avoid so brave statements . Let��s assume some ExeTools member, who really want to learn Starforce internals, will read that protect.dll ��changes from game to game�� and it��s not interesting. Let��s try to become himself for a while: I would like to learn how to crack Starforce (this is just an example), I also see some team did it without modifying protected game files. I am pretty interested because if it works then, maybe, I will be able to learn the same trick and gain additional knowledge (invaluable if I want to know how the protections works and how they can be defeated). Unfortunately I read the following sentence: ��the crack is not as interesting�� ��protect.dll changes from game to game�� and think: ��damn, I just thought it could be what I am searching for, but this guy proved it is not��. What��s next? Ehh, you know. Are we here to learn or get discouraged? I will tell you something: when I was beginning my experience with PC software protections, I was totally out of help. I have been trying to contact some teams and even single crackers with the same kind request: ��please help me and tell me where should I begin, what should I read, what should I try to crack at first����. I have sent tens of emails. Guess how many answered? None. That made me wonder if the scene is really worth such an effect-less effort and if crackers do want to help each other, at least a little. I started to learn myself by completely partisan-like way, without knowing even trivial things like executable compressors (I didn��t know they exists and was wondering long weeks why process memory differs from executable content! He he�� good old times).

But let��s go into the details and render some logic estimations.
We have a problem called ��protect.dll��. Also we have a sentence: "A driver crack, if it existed, would activate all other games too...��. I will try to prove it was a too brave statement too . Protect.dll �C you have written that it ��changes from game to game�� - have you wondered why? Tell me. ��A driver crack�� ��would activate all other games���� �C I am sorry to say you are wrong. Have you wondered why Starforce drivers do not have to change on each game? If you don��t know then think about their purposes. Problems? I will help you: tell me which file is the only critical for Starforce security? If you know then tell me if a driver based Starforce crack, in your opinion, really would be able to defeat other games? And now, after those inferences, please tell me if ��the crack is not as interesting��? Really?

"It would be great of Ultima release some info about their method but I think they won't cause it should help the developers to improve SF3��
Well said, but Starforce developers are skilled enough to discover this trick by downloading discussed relase.

Regards.

[Kameo]

Hat off to Ultima, respect, nothing more to say.